First, a word of caution, don’t venture on a message board that applies the tactics I am about to describe without first questioning your mental ability to take the heat, and secondly without arming yourself with some knowledge about how disinformation works. Read my article “Into the Lion’s Den” for how to practice recognizing disinformation when it occurs.
Let’s start with the messages from the anonymous “Jim” on GLDC's message board questioning my investigation into GLDC’s claims. I had just posted a message on the board asking for GLDC to provide non-repudiation (identity beyond doubt) that they were a real company.
James,
Can't wait to see the results of your "investigation" . I don't think you are following this whole company thing correctly so let me try to explain this to you, maybe Adam wasn't able to get the point across correctly. Once again, Great Lakes Dive Company was started in 2001, it wasn't then and isn't now, the exact legal name of the corporation in the state of Michigan, it is simply what the operating name is. (Edited for brevity) I agree with Adam, MUFON needs someone a little less adversarial and a little more diplomatic when dealing with sensitive situations (that is a quote from Adam by the way).
By the way James I personally would like to comment on the email that you sent to Adam questioning our "pure" intentions of educating the public and solving mysteries because we want to do a documentary. What exactly is MUFON doing plastering Dan Akroyd's picture on their website? I'm sure that helps people understand UFO's and the Paranormal much better (for $45 a year)...stick to teaching James, leave the history making, discovery business to the real men.
Jim
So you will notice that the message starts off defensively with “Can't wait to see the results of your "investigation". I don't think you are following this whole company thing correctly…” Notice the indignant tone. Also, notice how the message ends defensively with asking me to be a little more diplomatic; followed by criticizing MUFON’s use of Dan Aykroyd’s photo on our website and charging membership fees, and then finished off with a personal attack.
So here the disinformer adopted the standard disinformation formula of righteous indignation, followed by calling into question my motives and credibility as well as those of MUFON, to keep the focus off the fact that GLDC was not showing up in public records. These were tactics of intimidation to get me to stand down on my investigation.
Now take a look at the following post from my recent visit to OM, this time looking for the OM owners to establish non-repudiation of their own identities. One of the owners in question who goes by screen name IVO5000 responds:
James,
Good to see you back here at Open Minds - the cutting edge of Ufology and Disclosure-related topics.
There are several points you have raised in your blog post and are reiterating here at OM which are blatantly untrue. I can only guess as to your motivation for taking this particular approach and dredging up events from eighteen months ago.
What is mind-boggling is that you fabricate allegations and then expect others to provide you with the evidence that these allegations are false - that is not how it works.
Perhaps you have forgotten the several e-mails you and I exchanged last year? Let me refresh you (and everyone else reading here for that matter) with some of their content:
You are now falsely stating that "...When I pressed my case, I was then kicked off the boards...". The truth is you were never kicked off the forum and you left after stating the following to me in an e-mail "...No need to worry, I won't be wasting any more time on the forum...".
You are now falsely stating that "...When I joined the boards, I was treated by the moderators... in the same way I was treated by the Dive Company message board members, in a negative way using disinformation methods of deflection and intimidation...". The reality is that if you read back to those posts you will see that the moderators, admins and owners of OM reached out to you via Public Posts, Private Messages, and E-mails in an attempt to calm down a situation whose very flames you were actively fanning. Instead you chose to ignore the Private Messages and posted publicly.
You finally did respond to e-mails I sent to you. And with your consent I will publish the full content of those e-mails here. Those e-mails fully support my statements about how we reached out to you and attempted to work with you on this but it was you who chose to take the path you followed.
You have falsely stated "...Now the interesting thing about Open Minds is that the two principles (Admin and Ivo5000) who allegedly co-own it and with whom I have had some interesting email exchanges don't seem to be real people themselves. I could be wrong here but I challenge anyone to investigate this for themself (sic) and if you can surface a real resume for either partner, then I will retract my statement..."
The reality is that Open Minds is owned by five individuals. The reality is that you chose to correspond with one of them (me) over the course of several days through many e-mails. Do you often correspond with unknown entities? The truth is I offered you information in those e-mails about myself that anyone with a computer and a Google search engine could find out all of the information needed. I would think that with the vast research resources available to you that you would have been able to find out anything you wanted about me and Open Minds.
Your allegations about intel connections we at Open Minds might have is interesting coming from someone who has a background in Army Intel.
The one point I would like to agree with you on is when you state "....So my friends, beware of La-La land (the Internet), don't believe everything you read there....". Interesting that you use that very medium (the Internet) to warn people about its use and content. However, this folks is what is called deflection.
The bottom line James is that we tried to work with you in the past. You were the one who shunned the people at Open Minds and then played martyr to the masses. It is indeed a pity that you didn't follow up on my offer to work with you on collaborative efforts between Open Minds and MUFON.
By the way, if you are indeed a man of your word, then feel free to begin retracting.
IVO5000 wastes no time showing his indignant behavior that I was asking questions on the forum or as he put it “dredging up events from eighteen months ago” and his righteous indignation explodes in the second paragraph with “what is mind boggling is that you fabricate allegations…” followed by “you falsely stated” three times. Then he calls my credibility and motives into question with “coming from someone who has a background in Army Intel”, and “interesting that you use the very medium (the Internet) to warn people about its use and content.”
Not once does he address the question posed to the board about whether or not he was willing to establish non-repudiation of his own identity. Classic disinformation – there is no need to answer a question if you can shift the focus back on the questioner.
Now an interesting thing occurs on a message board when disinformation is dished out. Others on the board come to support the disinformer because either they are also part of the disinformation team or innocently don’t recognize what is really going on. Take for example the following post on the GLDC message board after “Jim” questioned my investigation.
Hi Everyone,
I tried sending an earlier post, so if it does get through and this post is redundant, my apologies.
I am very familiar with the "Kinross" incident, having read about it in grade school during the late 1960s and early 70s. Like many of you, I find the case almost too good to be true and will wait patiently for details to unfold.
Unfortunately I find the MUFON investigator's stance a bit heavy-handed. Such attitudes tarnish the reputation of well-meaning UFO research organizations. While it may be frustrating for an investigator when information does not come forth rapidly enough or seems suspect, diplomacy and a level head are in order. Might I suggest a meeting on neutral ground with a different member of MUFON or CUFOS (Center for UFO Studies in Chicago) and arrange with GLDC for a viewing of some of the underwater footage, and report their impressions to this board and their respective organization(s). In this manner a professional and scholarly relationship can be established and a well-documented timeline created of interaction between all parties involved.
Frankly, I am quite surprised that Linda Moulton Howe of earthfiles.com or George Noory's Coast to Coast AM radio show hasn't featured this story for an international audience. Perhaps I missed their coverage?
In any event, congratulations GLDC. Excellent work.
Best wishes,
Art Chavez
Whether or not the supporting member is in on the ploy or not doesn’t matter. What disinformers get as a bonus out of this support is that the questioner feels further isolated because what started out as a straightforward question, has now become a “heavy handed” question.
A second GLDC board member, Joe_4090 adds:
I have to agree with the 'heavy-handedness' of MUFON's investigation. Right now their 'investigator' is here, dumping on our discussion forum, with his 'witch-hunting'.
1. To the best of my knowledge, GLDC has NOT described the artifact presented as a 'UFO'. They have only referred to it as 'a mystery'. Of course there has been speculation that it may be something 'extraordinary', but I haven't noticed anyone from GLDC adding fuel to that theory.
2. Regardless of GLDC's status as a 'Company', 'LLC', ' Group of Individuals'...or whatever.....that is not proof in my opinion that they are perpetrators of a hoax! GLDC has other projects ongoing besides the F-89 one, so it appears to me that they are performing the function of what they describe themselves as....regardless of whether or not they fit some technicality as to what a 'company' is.
Perhaps the thing to do would be to stop harassing them and wait for further developments and releases before ramming one's 'almighty judgment' down everyone's throat!! Time will tell whether or not a hoax is being perpetrated.
For what its worth, everything GLDC has presented looks 'good' to me!
Notice how Joe_4090 not only agrees with the “heavy handedness” but supports GLDC’s legitimacy as a company by stating that “GLDC has other projects ongoing” (unsubstantiated) and “looks good to me” (passes my muster). This is followed up with reinforcing the heavy handedness message by stating “before ramming one’s ‘almighty judgement’ down everyone’s throat”.
Let’s see how the supportive role showed up on OM:
OM member JakeReason chimes in:
"Post comprehensive CV's and resumes"?
Is that what it takes now to prove a living person?
If I may digress to the absurdity of your extortionary character attack;
Heil Hitler! Long live Saint Joseph Stalin!
Do you carry a chip injection syringe with you?
Back to reality;
What's this R-E-A-L-L-Y all about Carrion?
Boring day at the office for you?
Hey, but thanks for the publicity
Notice how JakeReason has made no statement of opinion but asks four questions of his own to make my question appear to be absurd on its face by associating it with the “heavy handedness” of Stalin and Hitler.
OM member Fore jumps in as well:
only wonder one thing after reading the last page of this thread.... Does James often jump to conclusions of there being an "Intel Agent" behind a particular forum?
And if so, how many other sites like this one does he suspect? Or is it an OM only thing? (how many others sites are in queue? I'd love to hear the statistics...)
I find it odd that his Army training didn't cover this sort of stuff (and if it did, why is he jumping to conclusions?).
When/If the Admins get to show their CV and clear their name of this....?rather strange?....accusation. How does this reflect on mentality behind the International Directors seat?
I for one got something very different than what I was expecting. It's not everyday that you see these kinds of accusations leveled especially when it comes from the "top" of the UFOlogy folk.
Too bad people don't come with a a sort of black box recorder that you can just pluck out and read over the contents of the moment where an Admin of a forum becomes a suspicious "Intel Agent". I'd like to see how they made a strange left turn to reach that conclusion.
Especially when the best of the best usually goes at the top rung. (International director is nothing to sniff at!)
I feel like ufology just got dragged through the mud yet again over the inherently "odd thinking" that befalls it..
See a pattern here? Just like JakeReason, Fore asks seven questions of his own to make my one question seem absurd and then associates my “heavy handedness” with that of an Intel Agent.
Now back to GLDC, where “Jim” on the defensive states:
As far as the MUFON thing, hey I'm all for a truce. I think Adam was a little insulted by J.C. due to the fact Adam was giving him details on the project itself and J.C. decided to take an accusatory attitude after weeks of emails (over something stupid (my opinion) like the name of the company). If it had been anyone else in the MUFON organization I'm sure we would have brushed it off, but this is supposed to be the top guy at MUFON. That kind of gestapo-like questioning just ends up dealing MUFON out of the future project updates. Getting a stamp of approval from MUFON isn't a priority for us, as again we are not members of the UFO community. Also, there are diplomatic ways of asking questions, and being patient when the details don't come fast enough, especially when the news is less than a month old. Either way I'll be the man here, and agree to knock off the public argument on this board. Let's see if J.C.'s got the kohonas to do the same.
And at OM, IVO5000:
The truth has been shown to be an inconvenience for James in what ever the heck his agenda is.
We have shown that he has lied several times over these last nine pages. Is that how you search for truth? Is this the type of behavior the Board of Directors at MUFON desires from their International Director? I would hope/expect not.
Let me make one thing very clear here - MUFON is an organization I respect....James Carrion is not.
In both of these posts plus Fore's before that, the focus is on me and my position as the International Director of MUFON, trying to depict my questioning GLDC or OM admins as absurd for someone in such an esteemed position. This tactic is designed to get the questioner to shrink from their stance by erroneously trying to show they are letting their emotions get in the way of their better judgment.
These are just some of the common disinformation tactics that were used on the GLDC board and are also showing up at OM. The Great Lakes Dive Company never proved to be a real company. Will the owners of OM show the world that they are real people or hide behind their anonymity and obscurity?
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